BBQPit
Lv 4
BBQPit asked in SportsMartial Arts · 7 years ago

How are you testing your martial arts skills?

There seems to be a lot of TMA people bashing MMA lately. What I'd really like to know is how are you testing whether or not your martial art is effective? Are you really practicing eye-gouging, biting, nut-kicks in LIVE sparring against a resisting opponent and doing this full contact? Or are you relying on sparring that is even more unrealistic than MMA, Kata, drill, punching the air, etc?

Obviously those who bash MMA think they know a more effective way to test their skills, so let's hear it. Please don't tell me that you just "know" what you do works and you're going to find out one day when you are attacked.

Update:

G4P: "The answer is simple: Train realistically because you fight the way you train..."

So true.

Update 2:

Darth Scandalous: wow, so you're one of those people who gets all pissy whenever someone questions TMA huh? You like to just throw out your numbers of years of training and how you did this or that, blah blah blah and now you think you're a bad-*** because you got to go home safely... welp, doesn't answer the question at all. So your rant is just that, a rant.

Update 3:

@Kokoro: The essence of my question is how do you “test” your martial art/skills? There are a lot of traditionalists coming on here lately bashing MMA saying stuff like, “MMA is stupid because it doesn’t allow eye gouging”—do these people practice full contact sparring that actually allows eye gouging? I seriously doubt it. So I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset, but it sure seems like this question is hitting a sensitive spot with you and Darth S.

>>”Why do you do shadow boxing? After all it is just punching in the air and according to you it is completely useless.”

Where did I say punching the air is completely useless? Drill, punching the air/shadowboxing, kata, or whatever else is perfectly fine, but my question, again, is how do you put these to the test? Keep in mind, again, that I’m asking this for an intended audience: those TMAists who bash MMA for have “too many rules” such as no eye gouging, throat strikes, biting, etc. I want to know how the critics of MMA trai

Update 4:

n because obviously, they think they have a more realistic system. If you’re not one of these critics, then obviously the question isn’t intended for you.

>>“Why don't you go to the boxing section and tell them all there shadow boxing is completely useless, and tell me what kind of response you get.”

I don’t need to. Again (do we have a reading comprehension problem or something?) the question is HOW DO YOU TELL WHETHER WHAT YOU DO WORKS OR NOT!! Do boxers ONLY shadowbox? Hell no! Ask any boxer what they think is more effective: shadowboxing AND doing live full contact sparring, or shadowboxing only? I guarantee you any boxer worth anything will tell you it’s the former.

>>”kata is a much more advance version of shadow boxing and has far more purpose then you will ever know.”

Didn’t we already go through this and you admitted that his was poor wording on your part?

>>“if you wanted to know the truth about kata you and the others should have gone to pugpaws

Update 5:

seminar”

Well maybe you should pay closer attention to Pugpaws because in that Q I had a while ago, even he admits that shadowboxing and kata aren’t comparable!

>>”oh i'm sorry i forgot, you just want to continue with the lies you constantly tell and dont want to know the truth, you and the others would never go because you dont want your delusion shattered, and would rather pretend to know and understand when you all know jack.”

Oh that must be it. It couldn’t be due to the fact that I live on the West Coast, have a wife and a baby girl, and I’m not going to fly all the way across the country just for that..

>”as for training and your pathetic rules, why dont you use small circle jujutsu like we do when we spar?

you only mentioned a few techniques we might not use where as small circle jujutsu consists of hundreds, i use it in full contact matches with my partners why cant you guys?”

So you do practice your techniques in full contact against a resisting parnter? We

Update 6:

ll fine then. I don’t see why you couldn’t just say that from the beginning. Your response seems more like you’re sparring out of a blind rage rather than actually reading the context of the question.

Update 7:

"Your response seems more like you’re sparring out of a blind rage..."

Eh, I mean "responding" out of blind rage.

Update 8:

@Kokoro: well Y!A is the place to ask questions and receive answers (hopefully ones that are relevant to the question). And if a TMAist is on here bashing MMA saying it is unrealistic, then I would really like to know how he trains because if it is truly that much better than MMA's methods, then why wouldn't I want to get in on this too? But, there isn't one offensive thing in my question.

I just find it very ironic. Back in my WTF Taekwondo days, I remember the instructors were talking to me after I took gold at a tournament. I remember he said, "It shows how easy it is to beat someone up, as I am defeating trained opponents while someone on the street knows nothing." But then when the advent of the UFC really started taking off, he would essentially rip on it because of all the "rules"... but yet, our WTF sparring had so many more rules (no punching to the face, no leg kicks, no grabbing, no elbows, fight with pads on). And I found that to be very iro

Update 9:

nic that he would think he and other competitors in WTF were badasses, but MMA guys weren't.

As for pugpaws' seminar, suffice it to say that if I lived close I would go. But since I don't, I'm sorry, I am not going to fly across the country, spending hundreds of dollars on the plane ticket, hotel, food, take time away from my family, and possibly have to take time away from work. Nothing at all against pugpaws, but it's just not going to happen.

11 Answers

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  • 7 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Sparring every single class. I'll be heading to training 4 days this week and sparring in both Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu in each class separately. I'll also do some full MMA sparring on Wednesday. On top of all of this, Keyboard Warrior will be here at the end of this summer and we're planning on doing some training together. He'll be helping me with my BJJ which I just started doing and I'll toss some advice his way on Muay Thai. We'll surely do some sparring as well while he's here.

    I have no issues with TMA as long as practitioners are training realistically. I really like Karate when it's trained right. But there are plenty of people who don't train realistically, and what I find funny is that the TMA guys that AREN'T training realistically are ALWAYS looking to compare what they do to MMA or styles that play a major part in MMA. For example, I can find video upon video of people from Wing Chun doing videos on YouTube where they try to answer the question "What do I do if I have to use Wing Chun against a Boxer/BJJ Player/Muay Thai Fighter/Etc...?" I've found that those who think they need to specifically look for ways to counter these styles tend to be the same people who aren't training realistically and have developed some level of question in their mind about how they'd really stack up - Hence they've become insecure and these videos are an attempt to prove something. I can't help but notice the lack of videos from these other styles covering the topic of "How are we supposed to deal with Wing Chun practitioners?" The answer is simple: Train realistically because you fight the way you train and if you train with patty cake rather than sparring then you'll only be prepared to play patty cake in a fight.

    Source(s): Experience with multiple styles, primary style is Muay Thai, moderator of The Caged Dojo.
  • 7 years ago

    Let me start by stating that I don't believe that any training is completely worthless unless its based on magical thinking but do believe that all training is deficient. I have tried full contact when I was younger but found it limits what you can use. I have tried non-contact point sparing and again found it even more limiting. Pre-arranged sparing again was limiting but maybe a little better than the other two if you use a slow pace with defenses. Kata again is limiting but you can practice at full-force, intent, and power. Makiwara helps get the proper punches and kicks but does not hit back. More recently, I found a book that shows common injuries requiring hospital treatment citing each injury and how much force was needed. I figure that if emergency rooms say that these happen commonly with minimum force under accidental injury they are the best for MA. While I cannot train with them full-force with a partner, the data exist to support they work, I think that this might be the best way so far.

  • 7 years ago

    Lol. It is a debate. I don't think you really know if it works, whatever the style may be, in a real situation. I have confidence in both my traditional styles. I learned a style called Kempo when a kid and had too use it quite a bit. Area I grew up. I am now a master in TKD, and when I was 3 rd degree I had to use it. It was Amazing. And I don't mean that as gloating. In other words. The person probably had his life saved by me knocking him out. He pulled knife on civilians and if I hadn't intervened he would probably still be in jail or dead. But the TKD was supper fast and way more realistic than I could have imagined. This guy was way bigger than I, so I knew I had to do it fast. That I did. But during this whole event I did not think one time about what to do. I do remember thinking after I had kiaap a couple of times. "Where did that come from". Super instinctive. Super amazed. The techs were nice at first as a warning. I verbally told him to stay on the ground but he didn't. So the techs got even harder. Just like it would happen in sparring.

    Train Hard/Win Easy

    What you train is what you are. The only problem is the control of your techniques. Can you let them loose to destroy your enemy. Or would you freeze up. I don't think so. If you have had any kind of good instruction you will use it properly if that time comes. Pray that it doesn't.

    Thumbs down for real. Lol whoever put that is smelling like they need to put some shiiiii boots on.

  • Kokoro
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    Why do you do shadow boxing? After all it is just punching in the air and according to you it is completely useless.

    Why don't you go to the boxing section and tell them all there shadow boxing is completely useless, and tell me what kind of response you get.

    kata is a much more advance version of shadow boxing and has far more purpose then you will ever know.

    if you wanted to know the truth about kata you and the others should have gone to pugpaws seminar

    oh i'm sorry i forgot, you just want to continue with the lies you constantly tell and dont want to know the truth, you and the others would never go because you dont want your delusion shattered, and would rather pretend to know and understand when you all know jack.

    as for training and your pathetic rules, why dont you use small circle jujutsu like we do when we spar?

    you only mentioned a few techniques we might not use where as small circle jujutsu consists of hundreds, i use it in full contact matches with my partners why cant you guys?

    we do weapons sparing as well. why dont you use weapons in your matches, and yes i have done full contact fighting with weapons as well

    why dont you do free for all matches, we have matches where its the entire class sparing against everyone

    do you do self defense where someone is attacking you with knives, baseball bats, tasers, etc

    as for training methods, we spar on stair cases and bleachers, do you do that

    we use to go to the bar get drunk then go sparing, do you guys do that

    we spar and workout in the woods, on top of ice frozen lakes, in water at the beach, in the snow, and my latest on in a closet for close quarter fighting. do you do any of that

    no all you do is spar on a flat surface, with matting. how is that realistic? do you care a mat with you when your going to fight in the street?

    are your fights in the street timed as well, and have judges.

    ya right you guys sure spar realistically on that flat matted surface with no weapons.

    edit:>

    "Or are you relying on sparring that is even more unrealistic than MMA, Kata, drill, punching the air, etc? "

    i just reword this line for you to what it is more obvious.

    In all the times i have had to defend myself i never felt the need to rip a persons eye out of its socket, or take a gun from a person.

    "”kata is a much more advance version of shadow boxing and has far more purpose then you will ever know.”

    Didn’t we already go through this and you admitted that his was poor wording on your part?"

    yes that is poor wording on my part, i wish i could think of something better to describe the differences in a short line

    as for pugpaws comment about shadow boxing and kata, i'm not sure if i agree with him, i'll discuss that with him further when i have the time.

    and i did read the context. these question like the mma bashing questions are both moronic. it all goes back to one simple argument. my daddy can beat up your daddy.

    and btw i took a train to pugpaws there which was a about an 18 to19 hour ride. so it wasnt exactly next door for me either. and i also i have a wife an family. but still took the time.

    edit2:> most of the people on here bashing everything are noobs and trolls. you dont see that from the seniors or at least much of that.

    Source(s): 30+yrs ma
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  • Mirza
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    Ask you instructor. He/she will know if you are ready and which tournaments to enter. There are a lot of tournaments out there that are not exactly fair to all competitors and the judges prefer and score their own students better than an outsider. That is especially the case in small local tournaments and tournaments designed to bring in some extra money for the tournament director. I know winning is not everything but being treated unfair at your first tournament is discouraging to the student. I tell my students to go and watch a tournament first. Look up the division you would be competing in and see what is out there. It will give you an idea if you can match or exceed the skill. Considering that a lot of the good tournaments cost quite a bit of money I personally like to go prepared which means I practiced my form(s) I will perform and polish my fighting skill with a partner before I go.

  • 7 years ago

    Well I'm a student at the gate, so to speak, but today I was thrown over the handlebars of my bike while going faster than I should have been. It may have only been me vs. the sidewalk, but I sincerely think the sidewalk would have one if I hadn't spent the past four weeks doing repetitive breakfalls in the dojo. Got scraped up, but not a single bruise nor broken bone to report!

    Again, I am not even a beginner, but as I understand it, I am learning universal principles for how our bodies work, which will apply whether I'm dealing with a violent assailant or any other physical hazard that requires me to use my body to protect my body.

  • 7 years ago

    I agree that sparring is very important. I also agree that sparring full contact is the only way to spar. People like to bash TKD for "padding up" when sparring. However, there is no way to spar with full contact without wearing protective equipment. I guarantee you that my front kick would break ribs with out pads and my high roundhouse would give someone a concussion. Does that mean I should pull my kicks? Absolutely not, it means that adults, going full out need to wear protective equipment. Otherwise, they'll be out of 10 - 12 weeks healing and that doesn't do anyone any good.

    That being said, I don't like to spar every single class. I enjoy joint lock self defense and grappling. And while you can go full contact on this, you have to stop in the end. There is no reason to choke someone out to unconsciousness or break a wrist with a joint lock. As long as you are going full out up to the end with this, I feel it is suitable to learn the memory to take it to its full conclusion in a real life self defense situation.

  • 7 years ago

    I have tested myself on the streets (unwillingly). I was born and brought up in a very hostile environment. Many western people may not imagine that such environment exists. So, yes they work.

    I have an injured eye for life, a jaw that was broken twice and many of my ribs have fractured. I haven't been able to win all the confrontations. Sometimes I even ran away. But the bottomline is I am still alive.

    Edit: @bbqpit: And all this time I kept thinking that "WTF" meant something else :D Sorry! LOL

    Source(s): Karate since 1997/Krav Maga since 2009.
  • 7 years ago

    From personal experience, I always found TMA people to be under attack from MMA people. But regardless, the way I practice is bag work, and sparring 4 days a week. I do alot of my sparring at a martial arts club at the university I study at. The club is open to all styles and skill levels.The club has a slew of people from different styles, that spar against each other. I spared against people that practiced, kyokushin, shotokhan, goju-ryu, shito-ryu, sanshou kung fu, american karate, traditional taekwondo, Olympic taekwondo, Okinawan kenpo, american kenpo, ninjitsu, systema, Vovinam, kajukenbo, and tai -chi. Also I've rolled with judo, and bjj people. We all learn from each other and share techniques every sparring session. Because of this my taekwondo background is more expansive considering it's adapted to fight against other styles. We are encouraged to compete frequently (I've done boxing and point fighting, kickboxing is next). By the way, in sparring and the tournaments I frequently compete in you HAVE to wear a cup because groin shots are allowed and even get you 2 points if done by kick and 1 by punch in the tournaments I like to compete in (key word LIKE). :)

  • 7 years ago

    You must think that everyone here is a beginner like yourself.

    I spent 11 out of my 37 years experience working in the protective services(25 years in the security industry), with Fortune 500 executives, Celebrities whose movies and music you most certainly were entertained by. I worked many different venues like corporate, institutions, night clubs in NYC, concerts, private and public events where I oversaw the VIP security details. I worked local dances, Bars in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan - places that you would not tread...

    This is where my Classical ONLY training was tested many times over, and I always got to go home safe and sound.

    Now you guys mention, ALWAYS, "punching in the air".

    That gives away your lack of knowledge of REAL martial arts. And you use the watered down BS to compare to what you do.

    The Classical Arts are not teaching "punching in the air". They are teaching principles of body mechanics. These things have been misunderstood as punching, but the old school teachers tell you that there is no punching. Those are not punches. I won't waste knowledge on you... so you won't know what is going on there. You'l remain as ignorant as you were before you posted this question which shows your total lack of understanding.

    But don't post misinformation here because there are people who really know true martial arts.

    Edit:

    Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or feels about my "rant", you're still dishing out misinformation as knowledge.

    I don't give a **** about "tradition". So you can't accuse me of defending that word. You and your other personalities come here as if you're the only ones that know how to "test" skill. You're still wet behind the ears, kid. Of course people with decades of experience are going to react when the new kids in town act as if they know everything, as if they are the only authority.

    You don't know it all.

    Edit:

    I gave you the information showing how I test my skills and you say I'm "throwing out numbers"... you did post it here to be answered, didn't you?

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